Table of contents
Summary: How to Be a Productive Leader
Join Jennifer as she interviews Sally Foley-Lewis. Sally is obsessed with productive leadership. We learn why it’s important to have a magnet in our heart, a compass in our head, and an oxygen mask as a reminder.
Words of Wisdom
A productive leader has a magnet in their heart and a compass in their head. — Sally Foley-Lewis, Speaker
Transcript: How to be a Productive Leader
Jennifer: Is recording this episode. You may notice the sound quality isn’t as good as usual, but please stick with us as it’s a great episode, and the sound will be back next week. Thanks a lot. Hello and welcome to the podcast, I’m Jen McFarland. On this episode, I visit with Sally Foley-Lewis, who’s obsessed with productive leadership. I absolutely love her approach and I think you will to. Here’s a sneak peek of what’s ahead.
Sally: A leader has a magnet in their heart and a compass in their head. That to me, sums up leadership where I can attract people, and inspire, and engage, and seek to understand. Which is the Steven Coby classic, but that’s the heart. The magnet of drawing people in. Drawing people in also includes helping them come along on the same journey to understand the goals and the vision. That to me is the magnet in the heart. The compass in the head is knowing the direction in which we’re going.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the podcast recorded at the Vandal Lounge in beautiful Southeast Portland, Oregon. Why the third paddle? Even the most bad ass entrepreneurs get stuck up in business shit creek. Management consultant Jennifer McFarland is your third paddle helping you get unstuck.
Jennifer: Hello and welcome back to the Third Paddle, I’m joined today by Sally Foley-Lewis. Sally boosts productivity by helping dedicated professionals to achieve their goals and master their leadership skills. Obsessed with productive leadership Sally helps you achieve more, reduce stress and take back two hours per day. I would really like that by the way. It’s all about managing yourself. There’s no such thing as time management. You need to master your self-leadership when it comes to having success, the success you want in your career, business and life. Blending 20 plus years with a diverse range of people and industries in Germany, the UAE, Asia, and even Outback Australia.
With exceptional qualifications, a wicked sense of humor and an ability to make people feel at ease she’s your first choice for mastering skills and achieving results. Sally’s written two books. Her latest book, The Productive Leader. She gives presentations and runs workshops to help people become productive leaders. Sally is a dynamic and interactive presenter, emcee, a much sought after facilitator and executive coach. Sally’s clients rave about her because she leaves the audience equipped to take immediate positive action. Well Sally, welcome to the Third Paddle. Thank you so much for joining us.
Sally: Thank you. Just delighted to be with you. I love that we’ve had a chat first to get ourselves comfortable because I think that’s one of the key things when it comes to productivity is what happens behind the scenes. I think we’ve got to own that stuff. I think that’s all about how you become even more productive when you own what you’ve got to do and take responsibility and learn from it and grow.
Jennifer: Totally. I just really enjoyed getting to know you a little bit beforehand. Then we also chatted on LinkedIn. I think all of it just helped us get to this point where we can just share. I’m super pumped to talk to you because I have my Master’s degree in leadership and I’m always looking for ways to make my own leadership move forward and then helping other people in my work as a tech consultant and just a management consultant. When I was prepping for the show one of the things you mentioned was, “I’m happy to chat about anything that gets people to stop and look at their behavior.” I love this because it really speaks to self-awareness. I’m curious. Would you mind sharing why you’re so passionate about leadership, productivity and self-awareness?
Sally: Absolutely. And how much time have we got because you might have to put a timer on me. I am happy to chat because the reason why I said that is because for my framework, I understand productivity to be driven by how we behave. How I show up in my workplace and how I lead and manage my team has a direct impact on me. The model of productive leadership that I created has three key elements. That’s your personal productivity, your professional productivity, and your people productivity. Underpinning all those three areas of productivity is self-awareness. How I manage my day and myself has an impact on how much I get done.
It has an impact on my stress levels and then how I interact with other people whether they are my direct reports, my colleagues or senior leadership will also have an impact on just how much I achieve. I think when I look at my own behavior if I’m the manager and I take a good hard look at what I’m doing. Be prepared to reflect, adjust, tweak, test, change, let things go. Change your old patterns because it’s worth having a look at. Then I’m much better equipped with resilience because I’ve learned to bounce back more. I’m much better equipped with the ability to take calculated, educated risks. Therefore, I’m going to be of better service to my team and my company. That’s the almost short answer.
Jennifer: I think that’s great. You touched on so many important points. How do you define self-awareness and leadership? Let’s just start with that.
Sally: Well to me, when I was a young person I belonged to as a kid I was a member of a youth organization. We had holiday camps and we’d go away. I was so entrenched in their system. I ended up being one of the youth leaders. We would go away for a five day camp during school holidays and do leadership courses. There’s a quote that one of the leaders said that has stayed with me ever since because I am still young of course. However, so it’s not that long. No, I’m just kidding, it’s been over 30 years. The quote is, “A leader has a magnet in their heart and a compass in their mind or in their brain.” I’ll repeat that. “A leader has a magnet in their heart and a compass in their head.” That to me, sums up leadership where I can attract people and inspire and engage and seek to understand. Which is the Steven Coby classic, but that’s the heart. The magnet of drawing people in.
Drawing people in also includes helping them come along on the same journey to understand the goals and the vision. That to me is the magnet in the heart. The compass in the head, is knowing the direction in which we’re going. Being able to correct the course. Being able to stop and do the checkpoints along the way, because to me I look at the compass in the head. If you look at the actual sport of orienteering, you have a map, you have a compass, you have checkpoints along the way. You ultimately are looking towards achieving a bigger goal, so getting across the line first. That blend of the magnet in the heart and the compass in the head to me sums up leadership really well.
The piece about self-awareness is that preparedness to understand who I am, how I show up in this world and also how I impact on others. Being able to have some understanding that the perception I have of myself may differ to the perception others have of me. Being prepared to be curious about that. Being able to have a level of emotional intelligence around that, which means that empathy piece. Knowing the way I view something is not necessarily the way others view something. One of the big things around self-awareness is our blind spots. What do other people know about me that I don’t necessarily know about me? What are the things that I do that impact others and I’m not aware of it? It’s been open to being made aware of them I think is a big plus in being really effective with building your self awareness.
Jennifer: Wow. I think that’s really great. I love how the metaphor of having a magnet in your heart and a compass in your head. I think you could even carry that over into what you said about self-awareness. Where you have that magnet, but part of it is being curious. Part of it is having a compass that tells you that sometimes you need to ask for help or you need to change course. I think that’s just so powerful. Of course as a person who’s led a lot of projects, I love the orienteering metaphor because you’re going to have a good plan and move it forward and be on time and on budget. You have to have all that. It really helps to have a champion or a leader at the top that is able to have that self-awareness and to have that curiosity. I worked for somebody who did not have any curiosity about that. Didn’t really have any self-awareness. It was very difficult to work for that person. Do you find that that happens a lot when you step into organizations to help.
Sally: I think what happens is at first people … Who am I to be stepping in telling them what to do and how to be is often sometimes that resistance piece. I call them prisoners in the room. I think if you are a facilitator, somewhere in your journey you’ve had a prisoner in the room. To me the first thing that has to happen and this is what I do quite regularly when I have resistance is to say, is to acknowledge that. “I get you’re feeling like a prisoner or entrapped. You know what? Here’s the deal we’ll make. Just don’t get in the way of everyone else who wants to be here. That’s all I ask of you.” That usually takes the pressure off. I usually find within about the next 30 minutes they’re in and playing. That allows us to have that conversation.
If I don’t put that pressure on them particularly when they’ve been sent to me as opposed to self-selecting. We just build a rapport and go from there. Does that take a bit longer? Yes it does, but in my opinion the length of time doesn’t matter in that regard because do you want change? Or do you want me just to annoy someone even more in a shorter period of time, because I’ll dig in. You know that. You know me, they just dig in however and they won’t want to change, they won’t want to be prepared to look at what they’re doing. There was one particular instance I’m thinking of right now. There was a gentleman that sat there, arms crossed, he even swore at me, but I took it as being him just swearing at the situation.
I said to him, “Look, you’ve made it obvious, you don’t want to be here. Can I ask you, sit behind the group. If you want to check your phone all the time or do emails or whatever you’ve got to do, just do it behind the group. Just don’t get in the way of the others and we’ll check in and see how you’re going. Please just do what you need to do to be here and survive this.” It took a while, within about an hour, I had the group doing an activity. I went up and I said to him quietly while the group was doing an activity.
“How are you doing? Is there anything I can answer for you? Is there anything I need to know about why you don’t want to be here?” And he just opened up. That was the beginning of him being listened to. While we have people, we might have senior leaders who bring you and I as experts in to change everyone and fix them. Where was the listening in the first place to find out what the fix needed to actually be. I think that ability to get people to be more self-aware, really can start with listening, truly presence and listening.
Jennifer: Right and making sure that there’s an understanding of what the problems really are.
Sally: I just think in that situation most people, we’re talking about the majority. There is of course a minority of people who are narcissistic psychopaths and the sooner we can weed them out of an organization, the better. But for the most part 98% of us are regular mortals who do want to do a good job. If they’re resistant to something, then my curiosity says, “Why are they resistant? What’s the culture here or the relationship between manager and direct report or the shift or the changes that are happening in the organization or the industry and marketplace? What’s going on underneath this for this person to actually be resistant?” If no one is taking the time to actually stop and ask and be present and ask, then you’re stopping yourself from actually probably finding a much quicker, cheaper, easier fix, which dos us out of work. But that’s the bottom line I think.
Jennifer: I totally agree. It’s always sad to me when really good employees leave because there’s a lack of curiosity around why they’re unhappy or what’s going on. They just let people leave instead of asking those questions. I think that goes back to what you were saying earlier about people stopping and taking a look at their behavior, whether it’s organizationally or for a leader. To that end, is it safe to say that a leader often needs to step back and account for their behaviors.
Sally: Absolutely. I think on a daily basis. I think the best leaders or managers who get to the end of their day and say, “What impact have I had? What has my behavior done for my team today?” If it’s gone wrong, then owning it and saying, “I know there’s some cultural elements to this.” But I’m going to say in Australia and I dare say in America as well. If you’ve done something wrong and you said to your team, “I made a bad decision. Can I get your help to fix this?” When we own it, people are far less angry at us. When we go, “Oh, I’m sorry.” We put our hand up and go, “My bad. My sorry. I’ve made a wrong decision or I spoke to that person the wrong way. I truly am sorry. Can we do something, what can we do to fix this?”
I used to be the CEO of a youth organization, I had an admin officer, administration officer who at times was a little bit moody and on top of that she was a temporary employee. She had been with the organization for a long time. There was a Union issue around whether she should be made permanent or not, but her temporary appointment was coming up to be finished and actually this time not renewed and actually finished. She was obviously upset. She was concerned about employment. Everything that goes into it, she was feeling it. I was getting a lot of push back when I was actually trying to say to her, “Look, I’ll give you an hour every day to do job search and look at your resume and things like that.” Which I don’t necessarily have to do that, that’s not my responsibility, but I offered that to her. Then one day she snapped at me about something and I just went for it.
I lost my battle and I yelled at her. I was completely and utterly inappropriate in my tone and my body language. Was not inappropriate in my message. I called down, I came back and I actually apologized to her publicly because I absolutely humiliated her and embarrassed her probably. I said, “Look, what I did was absolutely below the line unacceptable and I absolutely totally apologize for the way I handled that.” I turned to the team and I said, “Please, this is not acceptable behavior. What I did was wrong.” I turned to the employee and she said, “You’re right, but the message you sent was perfect.” There you go, but I owned it. I knew I was wrong. I’m going to assume and based on the behavior of the staff after that I earned a little bit of respect by apologizing.
I probably lost a lot of respect for yelling, but I earned it back because I owned it and I apologized for it. I think when we do that, why should leaders step back and take account of their behavior. It’s because people are looking to them for direction. People are looking to them for … I think it’s a little bit like when you watch little kids in supermarkets. If they fall over. They look at their parent as a bit of a trigger as to do I cry and get attention or do I just get up and play again. It’s akin to that because we look to our leader for which way do we go now? What do we do next? That’s the leader’s role. That’s why I think it’s super important to account for your behavior.
Jennifer: I just love all these stories and it brings up a lot for me too of just the idea that a leader is wearing an overcoat because people are always looking to them. You want to be in that leadership role, but then you make mistakes too. That’s what makes it so hard to be a leader is the idea that because everybody is looking to you. I just don’t think you need to be fake about it. I think you need to be real, but when you mess up, it is on you to say, “Hey, yeah that wasn’t okay.” Then it helps people move forward. But it is hard to be a leader. It’s hard to be that center of attention and the person that people look to. I think it is … We’re all human, so we do blow sometimes, unfortunately. I know that I have. But yeah, if you own it, then it’s the best way to move forward I think.
Jennifer: How do you connect self-awareness and emotional intelligence? How do you think that really enhances leadership?
Sally: Well emotional intelligence is that ability to emphasize and to understand and then connect with motivation, yours and others. Your ability to self-regulate. If something fires up, how you respond or react because there’s a difference to me is the very … Let’s call that the quick and dirty definition of emotional intelligence. Sorry Daniel Goleman and your excellent book. When it comes to self-awareness it’s … What is it that triggers me? What’s my hot button? When do I know something is going to happen? What’s my default behavior around that. That’s the self-awareness piece, which means if I can see a certain issue coming through the organization. That normally triggers me to get frustrated and then I blow my stack or whatever it is I do. Emotional intelligence comes into play and says, “Okay, you know this about yourself. Is this how you want to be seen? Is this the best choice of your behavior and its impact on others?” I think that emotional intelligence and self-awareness absolutely go hand in hand. They’re siblings in this particular area of how you show up for your leadership I think when we’re looking at self-leadership, definitely.
Jennifer: Wow. I love that. I love the idea that getting back to the example that you gave where you came back and apologized to the group, for example. It’s like the next time you see that coming around the bend, you have the ability to say, “Whoa, hey. This could happen again. I’m going to take a step back and I’m not going to do that again because I really learned from it last time.”
Sally: Absolutely. I’ve never blown up like that ever again. It was a massive lesson. It still hurts today because I had to learn that lesson by hurting someone else and I don’t like that.
Jennifer: I’ve done the same thing. Absolutely. I reflect on it sometimes too and think, “Oh man. If I could just …” It’s the perfect example of why I need a time machine. There are so many times I wish I had a time machine.
Jennifer: I think that anytime I’ve hurt somebody, whether it’s in a leadership role or not, that’s when I just want to go back because I always want to do better. I think you do too, that’s why you help people get better. One of the other areas that you really like to focus on is productivity. I was wondering if you could talk about how self-awareness could make a leader more productive?
Sally: As I said at the top of the show, the three areas of productivity are personal, professional, and people. Your personal productivity is what you do in your own time that you have 100% control of. That would be things like your habits and when I say 100% control of your habits, that includes self-awareness so that you know that you can stop them and change them. It’s also understanding the difference between busy and achievement. It’s working on your focus and your attention. It’s those sorts of things that are personal and you. The other thing I add to personal productivity is also self-care. I actually have … Do you know the oxygen masks that fall out of the cabin and the airline attendants say, “Put your oxygen mask on first so you can then help others.” I actually bought one and I hang it next to my desk and so it reminds me of my own self-care. It reminds me to schedule me into the day.
I have morning rituals. Every single day I do something that’s of value for me. That has an impact that if my tank is full, whether it’s my energy tank, my brain tank, my love tank, whatever it is if I’m full, then I’m in a better place to be of excellent service to others. That’s a big thing around your personal productivity. Your professional productivity is around understanding when you’re multitasking and the impact that actually has on the quality of the work that you produce is one thing. It’s also looking at managing external time wasters. Managing expectations around you. It’s also things like how you run your meetings, how you handle your email, how you handle your calendar, so that’s your professional productivity. Now people productivity, which is where we get to the leadership element I think, or the more obvious leadership element. Is how you work with others that help them be more productive. How you handle conflict is one of the big things.
How you delegate, if you delegate because I know there’s a lot of resistance to delegation. It’s an area of particular passion of mine is delegation and feedback. For people productivity how good are you at giving feedback and how good are you at delegating? And doing them in such a way that you actually develop others, that you help them be more productive. Almost going into coach mode, you’re helping them to think about the way in which they do their work. That’s the three elements, but underpinning those, if you see those three circles like a Venn diagram, there’s a lot of intersections. One of the intersections is clarity. This is between yourself and the way you do your work. How clear are you at doing your work? Do you know the vision of the organization? Do your goals and values align with those of the organization? As a leader how do the goals and values of your people match up to the organization? That’s clarity.
Between your professional productivity and your people productivity, so between the way you do your work and how you interact with your people is boundaries. How tight are your boundaries or how loose are your boundaries? Is the way in which you show up and do work set an example for how others do their work. Are you actually encroaching on other people’s boundaries? A story around that, a very quick story around that is one of my coaching clients would be at work at least 4:30 in the morning and wouldn’t leave until about 9:00 at night. All her staff panicked that that was an expectation on them. She had staff arriving really early in the morning, staying really, really late, not probably as late as her, but trying to show that they were as dedicated as her. She had no expectation that anyone else would do that, but didn’t realize she was setting an example because she was the leader she was being a role model.
Being clear about your boundaries is one. Now the other and final intersection is between you and your team, so your personal productivity and your people productivity is the relationships. How well do you know your people? A great mentor of mine said years ago, “You cannot hate the person whose story you know.” I’ll repeat that. “You cannot hate the person whose story you know.” The more time I invest as a leader in getting to know my people, I’m going to be able to be better equipped at understanding what motivates them, what their triggers are. I can check in with what triggers their procrastinations? What are their habits? Therefore, I’m in a better position to work with them from a position of empathy and presence and a quality relationship to help them be more productive, their success is actually my success. I think that’s to me where the productivity in leadership overlay. Hopefully that’s made sense to you.
Jennifer: No. It totally has. I think it’s phenomenal. I think that when … I love the Venn diagram analogy of it. I think that if you have all of those pillars working together within an organization, meaning not just the leader at the top, but among your managers, the mid-level managers. I think that that’s what really can repel a vision forward. If you have good relationships with all the boundaries and everybody is taking care of their own oxygen mask. It seems like there would be a lot of clarity around a vision part as well. Not just the personal care, but the company care, organizational care if you will. Do you find that to be the case?
Sally: I think when we unpack the model with groups it’s really fascinating. When we talk about clarity, we often get into a conversation around values alignment. We do a little exercise. It’s a personal exercise around where their values lie and how they sit with the organization. We do a little fun exercise that forces them to prioritize your values. A lot of the time people are surprised at what comes up and then we share stories around those values, because it’s not an easy topic to talk about sometimes. I like to talk about babies in action. If your organization has a values of say, integrity, what’s the story? What’s happened that you’ve seen on the shop floor? Or where have you been in your organization where you’ve seen integrity actually in play. When we share the stories and story is massively important. When we share the story, we emotionally connect. That’s a real valuable tool for leaders and managers to have is sharing those stories of the values in action because they’re people, then it makes sense and we become emotionally connected to it.
Jennifer: I couldn’t agree more. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think that where a lot of organizations fall short is they’re not able to show that or demonstrate that or give people that vision and how that is in action. I think that’s beautiful work that you do to help people get there and see that. How do you help someone who is say blissfully ignorant about all of the [crosstalk 00:30:53]. Does that make sense? They’re not very self-aware, they’re just stumbling along. They are very unproductive in the model that we’ve been talking about today. Where do you begin?
Sally: I’m sure there’s probably a million answers to this approach. The one that comes to my mind that’s top of mind just now is waiting for an incident to occur. It doesn’t have to be a big incident. It could be just one little thing where maybe they’ve missed a deadline. It’s using something as a tool to be sure that you can not be a personal attack on that person. What you can do is say, “Look, are you aware that you’ve missed the deadline for this?” And be really specific about it. I said, “Okay, well then, do you know what was going on that caused that delay?” See to understand, get them to really drill down on that and be really clear about it. The key piece for me is for them to understand that there’s an impact. There’s a knock on effect of their unproductive approach to doing something. My question if after you’ve asked them what caused it they haven’t really got anything reasonable around why it was delayed.
Then the question I would be having is, “Are you aware of the effect that has on other people around you?” Or “Are you aware of the effect of your missed deadline has on our potential as an organization to make money?” Or whatever the actual impact is. I have a formula for this feedback piece to help people get more aware of what they’re doing, because for me feedback is change. It’s actually not about feedback, it’s about change. We just use feedback to get change. Have a specific example. Get them to understand the effect. Most times, as soon as someone gets it and gets that there’s an effect on others or on success of an organization or there’s a financial or human impact. When they get that they usually think, “Okay. I need to fix this.” They might not know how, but when they get that, that’s usually a turning point. The next piece of that formula or process would be to coach. “How do you think or what do you think you need to do so that you don’t miss the deadline?”
You want that person to be thinking. It’s always about questions. You as the leader or manager I think should ask or should be telling less and asking more, because what happens is we feel as though we have to have all the answers because, “I’m the leader, I’m the manager. Someone automatically gave me this new senior title, therefore I need to know.” Well I don’t think you do. I think you just need to have good questions. Then it’s about asking the person, “Well, what are you going to do about it?” One of the biggest things that feedback or helping someone become more aware of what their productivity is like is the accountability piece.
I always say to the people who I coach or who I workshop with is one of the best ways you can do this is to ask the person. Don’t tell them how they’re going to be accountable, but ask them by saying something along the lines of, “All that you’ve just suggested that you will do is fantastic and I think it’s really going to help you. Let me ask you one last question. How would you like me to help you to stay accountable to doing all of this?” I’ll repeat that. “How would you like me to help you to stay accountable for you doing all of this?” Sometimes [crosstalk 00:34:46]. If the person actually says, “Can we catch up in a week?” Or “Can I come and show you what I’ve done in this time?” Or “Let’s just touch base every two weeks.” Whatever it is, but get the employee to say it because they own it then. They’re telling you what they need. You don’t have to have that answer of what they need. The person is right in front of you, ask them.
Jennifer: I love that because not only is it, so that as a leader you’re getting to the accountability piece that works best for that person. I think it’s also that you’re actually building leadership within every level of your organization because you’re asking people to take accountability and to communicate effectively about how they need help and then with the expectation that next time we’re not going to be revisiting this. Which of course some personal awareness and leadership, right?
Sally: Definitely. I think that’s the thing that as leaders and managers, some switch those up in our head that we have to have all the answers as soon as we get into that role. I think what we’re doing is making our job so much harder because we’re giving answers. We’re not sharing stories. We’re not aksing questions nearly enough to help our own team to think, take the initiative, permission granted so to speak. Or as Meg Wheatley who is quoted as saying, “Proceed until apprehended.” 98% of our staff absolutely, perfectly want to do a good job. They’re not dumb. They probably know more about what’s going on the shop floor than you ever will know because they’re there doing it. Proceed until apprehended. You want to do a good job, let them go do it.
Jennifer: That’s so awesome. I’m a huge fan of Margeret Wheatley. She’s one of my favorites because she’s so real.
Sally: Yes. Completely. Definitely.
Jennifer: I just want to thank you for being here today and ask you if you have any last thoughts if you wanted to share with the listeners or?
Sally: I think one of the things that has stood me in my time is that quote about, “A leader has a magnet in their heart and a compass in their head.” I don’t know if that’s actually … The person who told me if it was their quote, I’ve never been able to find it and test to see who owns it, so I just say anonymous. It has been hands down the number one guiding light for me. When I’ve shared it with people it has resonated. They’ve made sense of it in their own way. I think if you want to be a more productive leader, then check your magnet and check your compass.
Jennifer: Beautiful. Beautiful.
Sally: Thank you. Thank you.
Jennifer: Thank you so much for joining us. Sally Foley-Lewis is a speaker, coach and facilitator who also has productive leadership programs. You can find her online at SallyFoleyLewis.com, we’ll put the link in the show notes for you guys if you want it. Are there any other ways that people could connect with you that you want to share?
Sally: Absolutely. Thanks Jen. Been a blast to be chatting with you, so thank you so much.
Jennifer: You too.
Sally: If you Googled my name, there’s only one of me. Thank goodness says everyone who knows me. There’s only one of me. Please connect with me, LinkedIn is probably the best place to connect, but I’m on Twitter and I’m on all the social platforms. Social bunny that I am. If you’d like I can send through to you also the Venn diagram if you want to add that to the notes if you’d like.
Jennifer: That would be great.
Sally: I could do that. Easy done. Just Google me and let’s connect. Let’s get this show out there for people to hear, so thank you.
Jennifer: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the podcast, be sure to catch every episode by subscribing on iTunes. To learn more, check out our website at www.ThirdPaddlecom. The podcast is sponsored by Foster Growth LLC, online at www.FosterGrowth.tech.
Sally: This is just a comedy of errors isn’t it? I’m so sorry.
Jennifer: It’s okay.
Sally: Nobody move.
Jennifer: Why am I standing still? That’s what I want to know. If I move in Oregon, is that going to make the phone move? I don’t understand.
Sally: The butterfly flaps its wings and then there’s a hurricane somewhere else [crosstalk 00:39:41]. That’s a good start. You’ve made my morning. Thank you.