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How to Overcome Fear of Rejection in Sales to Attract Great Customers

Jen visits with Katie Collins to discuss the sales fears and obstacles that prevent women entrepreneurs from getting the best clients.

How to Overcome Fear of Rejection in Sales to Attract Great Customers #1 Valuable Sales Tips

Summary: How to Overcome Fear of Rejection in Sales

During this episode, Jen visits with Katie Collins to discuss how to overcome fear of rejection in sales and obstacles that prevent women entrepreneurs from getting the best clients. Overcome those fears so you can attract who you want without compromising your rates.

Words of Wisdom

I think the biggest fear is coming off as pushy or sales-y. — Katie Collins, Sales Coach

Transcript: How to Overcome Fear of Rejection in Sales

Jen: Hello and welcome to the podcast. I’m your host Jen McFarland. On this episode, we visit with Coach Katie Collins to discuss the sales fears and obstacles that often prevent women entrepreneurs from getting the best clients. Learn how you can overcome those fears so you can attract who you want without compromising your rates. All that and more on the Third Paddle.

00:00:23:01 – 00:00:40:22

Announcer: Welcome to the podcast recorded at the Vandal Lounge in beautiful Southeast Portland Oregon. Why the third paddle? Because even the most badass entrepreneurs get stuck up in business shit creek. Management consultant Jennifer McFarland is your Third Paddle helping you get unstuck.

00:01:38:06 – 00:01:39:05

Jen: Katie Collins is a Sales and Strategy Business Coach who helps women Coaches and Wellness Practitioners overcome their fear of sales and talking about what they do so they can earn the income they pictured when they first got started in their practice. Her expertise is in sales conversations, niche clarity, creating profitable packages, session pricing, and writing program content. She’s worked with over 200 clients thus far. Katie is gifted with the ability to create a safe, nurturing space for clients to explore their limiting beliefs and transform their fears. She is trained in the Art of Feminine Presence and teaches both the BEING and the DOING aspects of business success. She is the Founder of Katie Collins Coaching, LLC and Denver FEM Talks, a local networking community for women business owners who want to connect and learn in a fun environment. She has also led a sales team over the past 2 years, selling over $4 million in coaching packages.

00:01:39:27 – 00:01:42:21

Jen: Hey Katie welcome to the show. How are you doing?

00:01:42:21 – 00:01:44:21

Katie: Thanks. Doing great. How are you?

00:01:45:02 – 00:01:48:03

Jen: I’m awesome I’m so glad to have you here on the Third Paddle.

00:01:48:04 – 00:01:49:26

Katie: I’m so glad to be here. Thank you.

00:01:50:03 – 00:02:07:29

Jen: I love this conversation because sales is definitely a place where business owners often get stuck. And I would include myself in that book at times it’s you know sales just seems like an obstacle or a dirty word. And I was asking you know I was wondering why do you think so many people think of sales as a dirty word or an obstacle.

00:02:08:16 – 00:03:07:28

Katie: Yeah I think that there are really two reasons for it. So the first one is when people spend money usually invokes fear like whatever we’re buying a big something. There’s just an element of fear there. And so we naturally blame the fear that we’re feeling on the salesperson. And so when one has to sell in order to get business or an order of business to succeed I think they get nervous that people will blame them for any misfortune that may come their way. I think that’s one reason why people are thinking sales kind of like that dirty word and then the second reason is and if you think about it on television and movies portray salespeople as being sleazy and all about money. Right. It’s like I’m sure you can close your eyes and picture one right now in your head right. It’s like the slicked back mustache guy you know some movie in the 70s. No one wants to self identify in this way. Right. It feels weird to me like yes I’m that guy.

00:03:08:01 – 00:03:32:29

Jen: Absolutely. Have you ever seen that movie Cadillac Man with Robin Williams. He plays he plays like the sleazy sales guy. Those like exactly what popped into my head I think he even had like the cheesy suit and the mustache and like the whole bit. You know I think it’s also that we’ve all been hard pressed right like we’ve interpreted that as being sleazy. Is that kind of what you mean to like not just the media but also maybe from experience.

00:03:33:03 – 00:03:58:28

Katie: Yeah I mean you know people are going to like I said whenever fear comes up and somebody a lot of times if they haven’t done their own personal development it gets projected all over the person in front of them. And so if they’ve ever had a personal experience where someone made them feel awful about like the product that they’re selling the service they’re selling it just creates this huge blockage in them from moving forward because it just feels such a bad experience. So.

00:03:59:06 – 00:04:14:03

Jen: You have to sell in order to stay in business. Right. So it creates this chicken or egg conundrum for people and because I haven’t always had confidence in sales. I’m always curious to know have you always have confidence when it when it comes to sales.

00:04:15:09 – 00:05:41:10

Katie: Absolutely not. In fact I spent about a year telling everyone I knew. That I knew nothing about sales and marketing. I think the exact phrase was I know crap about sales and marketing and so you can imagine how well my business was doing at that time I was really really struggling. And then I realized actually it’s just a skill set and I can learn that. And so I set out on a mission to actually mastered the art of sales because I knew if my business was going to succeed and I didn’t have to go back to a job this was where it was. And so I read some books. I attended trainings and then I started assisting at other people’s events. And during those I would have lots of sales conversations. And so then eventually it got easier and I realized I really had a knack for it. I can really connect to people really well and I realize as long as I felt in alignment and in my own integrity while I was having the conversation. Meaning if I felt like. It was a good idea for the person to sign up for the program then I was willing to encourage that. If I didn’t I was willing to say that too. So as long as I was in alignment and integrity myself I found I actually enjoyed the conversations. And that’s what made me get more confidence in it.

00:05:42:08 – 00:05:49:09

Jen: Tell me what are some of the limiting beliefs and fears that you see especially for women business owners when it comes to sales.

00:05:49:09 – 00:06:53:21

Katie: I think their biggest fear is coming off as pushy or sales-y. Right. It’s kind of that whole like calling us bossy when we’re actually being leaders. And so it’s. That like fear of judgment. And so I think the minute women hear an objection they backed down. So if they make the offer and someone says oh you know I love you so much but I just cannot afford it. I think a lot of women just stop right there and say OK you know we’ll let me know if you change your mind. And I think that that also has a lot to do with their own money story and how they view wealth. So I remember when I first got started in the coaching industry. I was a schoolteacher. And so you know it’s not a secret that schoolteachers are not the most well-paid. Profession out there. And so. I remember my goal in this new job you know my new business was to make 1000 more dollars per month than I was making as a teacher. And I’m so glad I’ve upgraded my money mindset. But.

00:06:55:07 – 00:06:58:02

Jen: Me. Too. Yeah.

00:06:58:20 – 00:07:45:07

Katie: I remember doing an exercise at a training one time and we each had to share you know what our money goal was and mine was something like three or four thousand dollars. And the person that I was working with is was thirty thousand dollars. In a month. That’s what you want to earn an amount. And I said $3000 or $4000 my month. And I remember sitting there thinking oh I got a lot of work to do. So I think the limiting beliefs around money in and of itself. What it means to be wealthy. What would happen in your life if you did make way more money than you ever have before. That stuff you have to confront if you want your business to get to a higher level. So as much as the internal I’m afraid to be pushy is also that wealth mindset. Whether you have it or not.

00:07:45:07 – 00:08:57:19

Jen: I think that’s absolutely true and I’ve talked about it before how I was in Peace Corps and I’m all about service and at times that gets confused with. Then I have to do things for less money and I had a similar experience actually when I met you where I was in a in a workshop and we were paired off and talking about what we charge. And I remember being paired off with someone who’s a writer and I was like What do you charge an hour. And it was like you know two hundred fifty dollars. And I was like she’s like What do you charge. I was like I don’t charge that much you know I’m like I didn’t even want to say how much I charge you because it was significantly less than that. You know. And that was kind of like my moment where I was like wait I know my shit like why am I underselling myself so much. You know what is causing me to do that you know and it’s still something that you know you have to revisit. I think I think that you set those goals and then you realize you need to keep up leveling those goals because you can get in that kind of comfort zone. Right. But you need to constantly challenge those limiting beliefs so you’re not just plateaued out, right? Like in one spot.

00:08:57:19 – 00:09:03:19

Katie: Right. And I think part of it is talking about it with with friends and business colleagues.

00:09:03:19 – 00:10:24:28

Katie: Like I think so many people are so private when it comes to the money conversation. But I love the friends that are willing to bear it all and say you know what. Yeah what are they shooting for and what are they charging and. You know they don’t usually say what they’re making per month I understand that wants to remain private but really like what are your goals. Because if you have a hard time even saying them. And you don’t have anybody backing it up then it’s just a dream right it’s not going to become a reality. So I really appreciate people that are willing to have the conversation and then that challenges me. Because even now I’m seeing an upper limit again. Right and obviously grown quite a bit from my desire to make three or four thousand dollars a month. Which there’s nothing wrong with that but I just wanted more. Right. So now I’ve got my new upper limit and I had one challenge the other day and I realized that the only reason I had that upper limit was because I thought that making more than what my goal was meant. Busy. Headache business with like a big team. And I don’t want. That right. And then this person helped me see it doesn’t have to be that way you get to CREATE YOUR BUSINESS any way you want. You don’t need to put a cap on how much you can earn before it becomes a headache. So you do that. So yeah I think it’s always a really good conversation to have with trusted people.

00:10:25:13 – 00:11:29:14

Jen: Yes with trusted people. And it’s funny I never read the book “Lean In,” you know if you’re familiar with that book and I’ve been listening to it in the car and last week I met with a bunch of new girlfriends and it kept coming up like throughout the conversation because we’re all like-minded entrepreneurial women and we were sitting around the table before we left. And I mentioned that I invest in the stock market and everybody is like you do? How do you do that? And you begin to realize that women we’re not raised to really talk about things like money and investments and how to do all of those things and that if we start talking about it then it becomes part of the new normal. You know what I mean. And then it’s OK to talk about our goals and talk about what we’re doing and so explain how I do it and why I think they could do it too. And you know it’s just part of changing that mindset of what it means to be a woman. And like refocusing on it’s OK to make money and it’s OK to like you know get out there and invest in the stock market it’s not somebody else’s job it’s kind of ours to do whatever it is that we want.

00:11:29:21 – 00:11:58:15

Katie: Yeah and it’s OK to be smart. You know what. We’ve been hiding our smarts ever since we were in middle school and the boys would like us if we were smart that takes courage. Conversation because. It takes courage. Right. Open up like that and then you can see lean in that people had when you shared. You know what you were really doing with the stock market. So I love women who are willing to have courageous conversations.

00:11:58:22 – 00:12:56:20

Jen: Oh wow. Thank you. And I don’t think of it as particularly courageous although part of that is probably because I couldn’t really hard hide my nerdiness since I got glasses in the third grade. So like I was outed as a smart nerd like very early on you know I was rock and the Holly Hobbie glasses and like all that. So there was there’s no way for me to hide Junior High was awful. Like you know it was like mullet time and glasses so I was I’ve been the smart kid for a long time. But I will say that talking about money and also when it comes to sales handling things like being told no. It’s hard. Right. Like if you’re smart you know you have something to offer. It seems to me like one of the one of the limiting beliefs that we have is I don’t want to do sales because I don’t want to be rejected or I don’t want to be told no. So a couple of questions around that are you know how do you handle a ‘no’ in sales especially if rejection is kind of one of your big fears.

00:12:57:18 – 00:17:13:05

Katie: Yes so as far as the rejection fear goes I think it’s really important to first decide if this is truly an ideal client. And so a lot of times you can release the rejection. Right. So I always joke you know sales and marketing is a lot like dating. And so it’s often can be a next like right. It’s just simply not a match and it doesn’t have to be that you know we have any hard feelings towards that person right. We can wish them well send them. Send them on their way. Not a match. And so sometimes. That’s not what I knew early on. Right. So I took it all in and I felt like rejected by people and I remember this one woman just took control of my entire free consultation and she just overpowered me and every which way. And so you know I made the offer. And she was a no and I hung up. And then I was like you know what. Thank God I’m not spending several hours with that woman over the next six months. Right. So that’s part of it is you know is this really someone you really really want to work with. If it is then when you hear when you hear that. No, I really suggest digging a bit deeper into the No. So what’s the objection or the reason for saying no. Right. And then. Usually, there’s a you can discover that there’s a reason underneath. Whatever they tell you. So for example if money is the objection. And so they say you know I love you. But wow that’s a lot of money and I can’t afford it. So oftentimes. There’s probably a little truth to that. It’s a lot of money. Right. And now that’s all relative. But. It can be a lot of money to some people but. When they say that they can’t afford it. It could be a smokescreen for something that’s even deeper. Because transformation can be scary. Right. So I work with a lot of coaches and wellness practitioners and so we’re working with people that want to lose weight that want to get pregnant that want to you know to advance in their life for their career and their business. And a lot of times there are things in our personality or habits that we’re doing that are in our way. And we know. That we’re going to get confronted with all of that and that they’re going to suggest we give up some of these habits behaviors routines that are. That are in our way way and all of that is really scary. And so we can just simply. Say you know no I can’t afford it. Because now we’ve created a safe. Problem. Meaning it keeps this problem of not having enough money. Keeps me safe. From having to make a decision for transformation. Yeah it’s like. It’s really it can be very confronting for people. But that’s the conversation I end up having. Because they can choose to stay planted right where they are. Or they. Can choose the transformation that’s waiting for them. And it always comes down to. You know what’s where were they on the commitment scale. You know if you ask on a scale of 1 to 10 how committed are you. Right. Where are they on that. And if they tell you they’re at 10 and then they tell you you can’t afford it. Right. Then there’s a lack of alignment there. And you can dig a little. Bit deeper. With so much compassion and here’s where you don’t come off pushy. Right. So instead you’re coming up with this compassion you’re saying you know I really care about you and I loved hearing about what you want to create and I see what’s possible for you. And I’m confused. Because in the commitment. Conversation you are a 10. But here we are in the money conversation and now it feels like you’re kind of backing down a little bit. Right. So what are the things that are most important. To you. Because what I see is people value their car because of their transportation. And hopefully they value their body. Usually only when there’s like a broken bone or something like drastic. Right. And then we have to come up with hundreds if not thousands of dollars to fix the car or to fix the body. So that we can get around to get it right. And so. Why not. Look at that the same way here. Like if your business is really important to you and it’s the way that you’re going to make money for your family. Why not invest in it or commit to it. The way you would commit to a broken bone or broken down car.

00:17:13:06 – 00:17:32:12

Jen: Absolutely. So you have to talk people through that. And I as I was I’m hearing you talk I’m like OK so like I’m learning some new strategies in here because I’m not a whole like a coach or a holistic practitioner in title but in a lot of ways people don’t come to me unless they want to make a change.

00:17:32:14 – 00:18:01:15

Jen: You know you don’t come talk to me unless you’re ready to transform and then it does seem like people get right to the edge. Right. Like there are about to take the plunge and they know that if they agree to work with me they’re jumping off the cliff and something is going to change. You know and if they are uncomfortable with technology or they are uncomfortable with what they are asking me to do because they’ve never done it before then the easy way out sometimes is to say I just I can’t afford it.

00:18:01:27 – 00:18:02:11

Katie: Yeah.

00:18:03:06 – 00:20:24:03

And like I told you when I had the cap on my newest money goal because what it meant for me after that was a lot of headache and frustration and building a team. So it’s like they create these stories in their head of what it’s going to be like if their technology does match up with them. Right. And works for them. It’s like oh my gosh. Then I’m going to be so busy. And that’s like all subconscious they don’t even realize it but that could be what’s coming up right. I mean I worked with you know realtors I work with direct marketing providers like you know it’s not just the coaching and wellness industry but, what I see is like for a lot of women. It’s like we leave our body when we have these conversations. It’s kind of like you kind of grin and bear it like you’re like. And the offer is you know $10,000. And you just aren’t in your body as you say it. That’s not powerful. Right. And it makes people not trust you because your energy behind the deliverance of your offer is just you know for lack of a better word awkward. And so when you know in my bio you said you know I help people with being in the doing of their business. And so the doing is really the sales strategy and how to have that conversation and how to handle some of those objections. But the being. Is really like being in your body and finding your center and taking care of your mental well-being and spiritual well-being before you get on the call. Right. So that was someone if they do say something that’s jolting you can just find your way back to center. And not lose your cool. And you make your offer from that same place and they feel that really powerful woman coming forward and then they’re attracted to that energy and they want to work with you. Right so I just had a conversation where I was looking at spending. I’m probably the equivalent of like. More than my first teacher salary was on a new coach and that was the thing where even you know on either side of the conversation if I can find my way to my center. And ask myself the question if it weren’t for the money. Is this something I want to move forward with. Right. So but I think that I was attracted to this person’s power as well. And it’s a very magnetic force. So.

00:20:24:15 – 00:21:29:15

Jen: Yeah, it really can be. And talk about like the magnetizing time right. It’s when you’re like you’re standing in it you’re excited you’re telling somebody everything you can do and then you say. Oh yeah like it’s $10,000 – I mean you’ve just like lost all of all of it. So it is about being grounded. You know it’s it’s about being grounded. I just interviewed somebody a couple of weeks ago named Sally Foley Lewis and she said that you need to have as a leader you need to have a magnet in your heart and a compass in your head. And I think that that’s totally true. Right. Like you’re attracting people to the sales conversations with the magnet in your heart you know because you have that desire to serve. Right. But it’s the compass in your head that has to say and you have to pay your light bill like let’s let’s let’s stand in that for a minute and have that uncomfortable conversation so that you can truly transform and help somebody and also pay the light bill.

00:21:29:23 – 00:23:29:19

Katie: Yeah. Ryan I’m so glad you said that phrase uncomfortable conversation because that’s something I’ve been saying a lot lately like to me. Getting. Late getting to to be a master at sales is really like how willing you are to have uncomfortable conversations. In all areas of life right. But if you’re always backing down from the uncomfortable conversations. You’re not going to master sales because it can be uncomfortable. Right. And what I love to say to my clients is sometimes you’re the first person in this ideal client or potential client’s life that’s going to point out the obvious. Right. Like this is the thing that’s in your way and I’m putting a stake in the ground for where you are. I’m believing in you. But you have to be willing to meet you there. And sometimes people are simply afraid to say that. And so then they honor you for being willing to have that really difficult conversation and to love them enough. To really put that stake in the ground and believe in them. So yeah. Sales can be uncomfortable. But. As. You know any mindset coach will tell you anytime you leave your comfort zone. You feel uncomfortable right. That’s the mere definition. Like when you’re in your comfort zone. Everything’s comfortable and we know we can be comfortably miserable. We can be comfortably broke. And we can be comfortably wealthy, right, like, but we get to decide our comfort zone. And the minute we leave it. Then it’s new. And scary and uncomfortable and I think the biggest mistake human beings make. Is when they identify discomfort as being wrong. Absolutely right. It’s like exercise. Like not comfortable but it certainly isn’t wrong with your body. Right. And so these conversations can be a little dis-, like uncomfortable. But it doesn’t mean. Wrong. I think that’s an important thing for people to remember.

00:23:29:19 – 00:24:21:09

Jen: I absolutely agree with that. And like one of my favorite I posted on social media every once in a while. You know the circle saying this is your comfort zone and then outside of it is like this is where the magic happens so you can sit in your basement and watch Netflix and not help anybody. Or you can get out there and have some conversations and change the world… and that that’s up to you after you have to be willing to be uncomfortable to do that which actually leads me into another part. So if you are afraid of the uncomfortable conversation in sales and it leads you down a path too. I know that they can’t afford it so I’m going to undercharge. You know why do you think many women business owners you know tend to do that or tend to undercharge for their services. And what does what does that actually communicate, do you think?

00:24:22:10 – 00:24:45:16

Katie: You know I hate this fact and I know I’ve been guilty of it myself in the past. It’s almost that I’ll take what I can get. Mentality. Right. But then again I go back to the dating analogy. Do you really want to take what you can get? Or do you want to hold out for you know what you’re really looking for. I know you’re not dating Jen, but. …

00:24:46:04 – 00:24:47:16

Jen: Yeah but I didn’t settle.

00:24:47:21 – 00:27:24:07

Katie: You found your you know your ideal match and so that’s why we identify who our ideal client is. And. Likely your ideal client isn’t someone that is unwilling to invest in themselves. So that’s like a part to my avatar is a woman who really likes to invest in herself and is willing to do that. But. I also think some of this you know undercharging and why that happens is because of the conditioning of women in our society. Right. So for as long as I can remember it’s been 78 percent of women earning what men earn. But I just looked it up for now. And so now in 2017, it’s up to 82 percent. Women earn 82 percent of what men earned in 2017. It was a Pew Research Center analysis. For both full time and part time workers in the U.S. And so we are conditioned with this belief that we somehow deserve less money simply because we are different gender and that conditioning can be really hard to unwind from. And I also think it’s very subconscious and we don’t even realize that it’s happening. Right. And it’s that same idea of how you know. They always say like if there’s a job advertisement. And. The women will read all the bullet points of qualifications and then if we don’t have even one of them we want to apply for the job like oh I’m not a good match. That’s right. Where men may not have five of them and he still applies for the job and may actually get it. And that’s what some blame men. Right. It’s really to just help women see you’ve got a go for it. You got to go for it with as much gusto as a guy can. And there’s no reason why women that are self-employed. That are determining our own value and our own worth. There’s no reason why we should be making any less money. And if we are then it’s time to look in the mirror. And face that part of you that’s established those you know those parameters. But I do know for myself when I have. Lowered my rate or kind of wheeled-and-dealed which I haven’t done in a long time but when I did do that. I found that. The work that I did with that client just didn’t go as well. And I think they lost a little bit if not a lot of respect for me again maybe even unknowingly. But that they felt like they had a leg up in our relationship because I kind of bowed down to me where they wanted me to be. And I find that I’m a much more powerful coach when I invite them to join me at the upper level.

00:27:24:07 – 00:28:20:06

Jen: Absolutely. And by that same token when you do undercharge or lower your rate or going back to something earlier that you’d said where you go after that person who isn’t your ideal client they’re absolutely not getting the best of you. And then oftentimes when I do that and I haven’t done that for a long time. But but when I’ve done it I always get burned. I’m like I don’t feel like it’s fair to them because they’re not getting my best work because the fit just really isn’t there. And we’re kind of in it you know and sometimes in the work that I do we get too far down the road to really like bail, like we have to finish it. But it’s not. There’s a mismatch. And so I really encourage people to charge what they’re supposed to whatever that rate is and go after the people are supposed to go go after. Do you agree with that. Like really focus on who your niche is, right?

00:28:20:06 – 00:29:40:29

Katie: Right. It’s welcoming. Right it’s really attractive. Like magnet and welcoming in the people that want to spend that much on your. Service. Because I really believe you get what you pay for. And I’ve learned this three times in as many months. Where I was just trying to save a little bit of money when I was making a couple of decisions with who to hire for a certain aspect of my business. And. Not that the service I got was subpar but just that I got what I paid for. And what I wanted was so much bigger. And I started realizing like you have to go for what you want. Absolutely. And I think it’s true for the ideal client that you want to work with you have to go for what you want it out there. You know I work with like you see a lot of work with high achieving women you know who are willing to invest in themselves right because high achieving women make more money. So. It’s it’s just asking yourself. Who do you want to work with. That’s it. Who do you like to work with. Right. And I like to work with smart. Powerful women who are willing and ready to invest in themselves and take action. So that we can create amazingness together. And so we need to find our ideal clients that are in that space are.

00:29:42:28 – 00:29:58:22

Jen: Yes ready and willing to take action. Absolutely. And I think you’re really good at helping people in that space and I can tell that you’re super passionate about the work that you do and about helping people with sales and I’m just curious why are you so passionate about this work. What led you here?

00:29:59:07 – 00:31:12:22

Katie: Yeah, I think it really comes down to I’m I’m really passionate about the idea that women can create for themselves the life and the career of their dreams. You know like I loved being a teacher and I felt like I was doing my part to save the world, but I was always low on money. And I didn’t have a retirement fund that was being contributed to because I taught adult education and that’s a different set up in if you’re 12. And so there is no future for me. I’ve had to be the one that was that was going to pave my my future as an unmarried woman. And so that is what got me to start looking into the coaching industry and what was possible and I’m watching all these people you know create wealth on their own terms. And I wanted a piece of that and now that I’ve seen my own money mindset shift and change. And you know my level of wealth shift and change, you know, or decreasing you know credit card debt as opposed to you know which 0 percent APR card can i put it on this time, right? But really like finding my way out of that. Now I’m just so passionate to show other women that it’s totally possible and whether they’re married or not that they can do this on their own terms.

00:31:13:04 – 00:31:41:12

Jen: Absolutely. You have and I think that that’s great. I think that people don’t realize what you said about helping in adult education that you don’t always get retirement and that you’d have to plan for your future and that that’s OK and that helping other people with their sales and with doing that. I mean that’s still adult education in a way. It’s just channeling it and focusing in on a select group of people that are high achievers. Right.

00:31:41:16 – 00:33:01:19

Katie: I mean exactly like that’s why I had the courage to make this jump because I was like I’m already teaching adults. Now I just get to teach adults a different thing. You know and really fun to have these high-level conversations with people and when they’re very open uncoachable. To know that I made an impact, like that I said something that day that made them say. Ah. You’re so right. You know you hit the nail on the head. I love that. Like that is so meaningful and you get the text. You know I sold my first three thousand dollar package or 5000 or had my first $10,000 month and that and the one that they think of to text and tell me, you know? I just love that. It’s not about the money it’s just about like what’s possible. What do you want to create? What’s possible? And let’s go let’s go create that no matter what that is, right? So I said earlier I was laughing at my $3000 to $4000 a month goal, and I don’t mean to say that that’s not a good goal because at one time for me it was right. But it’s just that every time I’ll level sort of my goals. Right. So no one should be ashamed of where they are with their goal setting. But they definitely shouldn’t be putting a cap on it. I’m so grateful to have been reminded of that. As for myself. You know that I had to get a cap on it. So yeah goals are fine and there are always changeable and you know. Achievable.

00:33:01:26 – 00:34:21:18

Jen: Yeah I think it’s really important to go back and review your goals like have I achieved this. I interviewed a business owner Tim McCain and he was saying how they had set this goal. He has a software company with 20 employees and he said that they had set like a million dollar sales goal and they achieved it and then they found the next year they had the exact same revenue. Right. And then it happened I think a third year and then they were like well why aren’t we making any more money. And they realized that it was because they had gone back and reflected on their goals. Right. And so once they did that and then they go back and revisit it. Like all the time because then it helps them continue to get higher and higher. So whenever you’re starting a job or a business or any sort of venture you maybe have initial goals but then you have to revisit them. Otherwise, you’re going to find you’re still in the same spot or you might find that you’ve actually been working in a whole different direction. So those goals aren’t relevant anymore and you need you need to refocus your goals because if you don’t know what you’re working for then you’re just going to be flailing around. I think so yeah absolutely. Even if your goal is you know 500 dollars a month but then as soon as you hit that you’ve got to raise it up because you don’t want to make five hundred dollars every month.

00:34:21:18 – 00:35:05:06

Katie: Right. Right. And I think you know I loved learning about setting bronze, silver and gold level goals because you know you could get that bronze level like yeah I can get there. And then you see yourself almost there just jump to your silver goal, right? And just so that the goals are always increasing and just reminds you you know keep. Moving forward where I think some people especially sales. Employees you know are contract salespeople for other companies when they know that they are hitting their goal. They’re like Oh good now I can relax the rest of the month. I hit my goal. Right. But when you’re in your own business it’s like Well actually I’d like to hit the desk and the next one. So.

00:35:05:19 – 00:35:50:12

Jen: Yeah well and. And what I appreciate about bronze silver and gold is if you’re not at if you’re not going to reach gold at least there’s something else and you can be like hey I got I got something you know like it’s you still have that achievement you know. But the goal should always be. To go for the gold. Right. But it gives you something so you feel like OK I got I got some stuff done. You know I got I got something going. And then and then he just kind of keep inching all of those goals up on the revenue side or the client side. Whatever those goals are. So OK you’ve given us so many tips it’s like I feel really strange asking this but I’m going to ask it anyway. So if you could give people one tip to help them earn the income they want what would that be.

00:35:51:12 – 00:37:42:05

Katie: Hire support. And take action. Together. So I was a few years ago I hired a healer. And. I looking back on it I realized that I had wanted her to wave her magic wand and make me all better without me actually having to do anything. So I shot on the calls right. But homework or the journalling I was supposed to do I didn’t give it my all. And so it’s so important to be willing to take action. But to me. Like literally the best move that I’ve made is hiring support over and over and over again. And sometimes. They. They weren’t the best investments ever. But the learning I got. Made it a good investment. Right. And so I’m now a huge fan of research, reviews, testimonials, chatting with people and then just being super clear what you’re looking for. Because it’s interesting when you hear someone’s offer like if you’re out on a bench and they offer from stage their program and the program sounds good and you’re like yeah. I’m going to sign up for that. Nothing wrong with it. At all. I’ve done that and I’ve gotten great things out of programs. I love them. But what I do for myself now I’m really clear what I am looking for and I don’t want to morph myself into someone’s program. I’m very clear that I want. And I’m in a hire for the exact thing I’m looking for. Instead of like oh this program is going to help me build my business as well it can help me in that right. In. The way I want. Right. And I look at you know joining one recently and then I finally talked to the woman who is in integrity and she said I don’t think this is what you’re looking for. And I was like I don’t think so either but I just love her so much I wanted to be in her program.

00:37:42:13 – 00:38:28:15

But I think it’s really important to hire people who have accomplished what you want to accomplish. And then as I said before you know you get what you paid for. And so don’t try to find the least expensive coach. Because I bet that coach may not have the confidence to push you in all right ways. If you hire. A pretty expensive coach. Number one you’re going to take action because you are not going to waste that much money. Right. Right. And hopefully. But number two if that coach is charging those super high rates. And they’ve got the testimonials to prove that they’ve really created some great things with other people then I think that’s a pretty good track. To say that that’s also for you too.

00:38:29:07 – 00:38:59:18

Jen: Yeah and getting specific and asking the questions about what it is that you’re seeking and can you help me with this and have you helped somebody in this specific way. Because when it comes to light get finding a coach I think you can be really specific. About those things and making sure that your specific needs are going to be met too many programs are just one size fits all. So it’s really good to get specific and make sure you know that it’s going to work for you.

00:39:00:21 – 00:39:35:10

Katie: Yeah but yeah I think the most important thing is to invest in yourself. I had spoken to a woman here in Denver who’s who’s very successful but she said she bootstrapped it whole way. And she wishes she didn’t. She wishes that she took money out. And hired support instead of taking as long as she did to create her really successful business. And that really stuck with me because I’ve been investing in myself this whole time. And it’s scary but it always comes back to you. So that’s that’s the number one thing.

00:39:35:18 – 00:40:23:24

Jen: Absolutely. And I think that what both of us can speak to is whether it’s on the getting a business coach which I have multiple business coaches in my life. But then also with the work that I do. Either way if you’re not getting support on the tech side or on the business side or with finance any of these different areas, social media, you could be going down the wrong path and then you have to go back and like start over again and you don’t want to do that right. You know. So all of these support people even if you’re thinking you know if you’re having your own money mindset saying you’ll just do it myself and I don’t have money for that. You know it could end up costing you more in the long run if you have to go back and start over. Right.

00:40:24:10 – 00:40:40:16

Katie: Yes. I’ve made that mistake. It’s so painful when you try to save money and then you end up spending more because you just basically threw away what you just spent money on so that you can start. Start again. And that money is also time.

00:40:40:18 – 00:40:53:00

Jen: Right. No. Yeah it’s the time part for sure. Yeah. Because time is money. Yes. And we forget that. Yeah. Gosh thank you so much for being here. Do you have anything to offer? How can people reach you?

00:40:53:18 – 00:41:20:25

Katie: Yeah sure. So my w is almost done which is And so right now that is just the beginning page where you can grab my e-book and that is how to get good at selling your service without feeling comfortable. If anyone wants to personally connect with me at this time they should send me an e-mail. So it’s

00:41:21:04 – 00:41:31:13

Jen: That’s awesome. We’ll put links to your website in the show notes. And please reach out to Katie Collen she’s really awesome. And thanks for being on the show.

00:41:31:27 – 00:41:32:24

Katie: Thank you Jen.

00:41:33:22 – 00:41:53:21

Announcer: Thank you for listening to the podcast. Be sure to catch every episode by subscribing on iTunes. To learn more, check out our Web site at The podcast is sponsored by Foster Growth LLC online at

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